Marriage is about love and committment. It is a way of celebrating life with the person you love.
The problem arises when both straight and gay people confuse sex aka Lust with love. Therefore, a string of broken relationships in the Gay community without any legal binding agreement. Or the typical broken marriage or divorce with the ugly outcome of legality and children in distress because of mistaking Lust for Love.
Couples that have been together for a few decades have probably determined that they are really in love aka common sense.
This is not meant to be an insult, but with divorce rates and family disfunctionality as a track record in opposite sex marriage I don't feel that straight people are real authorities in this area of "Marriage". I'm not being all inclusive with this remark, there are many beautiful marriages in the straight community. If this offends you. I appologize, but you must know there are very many divorces and problems with marriage. And you know there are married couples that are not in love yet remain together or in some strange acceptance of their separation or are just sticking it out to prove they're not going to become a statistic. I don't see the "Church" revoking marriage licences from people who don't measure up. What a STANDARD.
I would not model same sex "marriage" or any other copy of the same word for the way I may fall in love and share my life with another man.
Understand that being in a gay relationship is not easily comprehensible to straight people. There are different intra-relationship problems even though we may both argue about the color of paint, try and get a good dynamic between two male ego's in a romatic relationship or who's the authority figure in the Lesbian relationship? There are different problems to be overcome.
Straight people tend to create gender roles, even if they don't mean to, because that is how their sexuality works. Don't be in denial about this point.
The question will be asked or implied WHO's the girl or WHO's the boy. Most gay relationships don't work that way.
In a gay relationship there is NO GIRL, Men who love other men. There are varying degrees of expression of masculinity.
In a Lesbian relationship there is NO BOY, Women who love other women. There are varying degrees of expression of femininity.
Some same-sex relationships are the typical, because this is what the two individuals like their relationship to be like, or they don't realize that they appear that way.
Do they care what you think about that? Probably not.
As you can tell I have just voiced a very small part of what I think about how disasterous it would be to model our idea of gay marriage after the traditional forms of marriage.
Our culture and creativeness as a whole entire community and within our way of life, we can come up with a better solution to defining our togetherness than the word "Marriage" !!!!!
I do, I believe in equality... we pay taxes, we vote, we have our religion, we should have the right to choose to marry same sex or not. And I would on a ballot vote for same sex marriage even if I never walk down the aisle.
UGH... I think you are living in your own private idaho... Do you really think that most straight men and women are completely monogamous?? The statistics show that over 40% of straight people have cheated on their spouses more than once during their marriage. And over HALF of all marriages in the US end in divorce within 7 years. You should ask your parents if they have been totally monogamous with each other... that they they would admit anything... Cheating is a HUMAN issue. It's not a gay or a straight issue. People in general are quite screwed up theses days and are not very happy and content in their lives.. much less their marriages/relationships... so they tend to stray... looking for a fix... I have friends and family who have admitted it to me. How many husbands and wives are doing one of their coworkers? More than you realize... True, a lot of gays do cheat on their boyfriends and I personally think that that is wrong. But I'm not about to judge them as evil. It's really none of my business and it's between them. However, if you are going to put down the gay community for not being faithful in relationships then you had better extend your distain to the straight community as well... I was in an 8 year relationship and never once did either of us stray, although we both had many opportunities. A monogamous relationship between two guys is certainly possible and those relationships are out there.
I am offended that you would call me discriminatory. You must not have read my posting. I know enough gay men, as I have admitted to being one. I am not maliciously impugning gays, because it hurts me as much as it does you. But, I feel obligated to inject reality into the conversation, as cruel as it may be. And the truth is, that you may think you are in a monogamous relationship, but odds are you are not. Have you ever checked bathhouses, mens' rooms, or the gay.com, or cruisingforsex.com? Odds are that you, your parnter, or both have. I mean, you can pretend that you are in one, but man, I doubt it.
First of all, sorry, i live in a blue state, so its rare if at all i hear that type of discrimantory statement, so let me get over my disbelief for a moment.....
ok, What the Heck have you been reading? well thats a stupid question obviosly its the mormon pamphlets. "they are genetically or consciously predisposed to promiscuity" have you ever met a gay man? because, I'll tell you, personally, I live in a monogomous relationship... so does my boyfriend. Quite frankly, i find your comments to be rude, and unfounded. Mainly because you have no idea about the "gay" community.
My brother and his husband had a commitment ceremony in 1975, and are now celebrating 30 years together. Whether or not society, cynics and doubters accept, recognize or believe in it, gay marriage exists. It's like asking if you believe in homosexuality - all the "NO!" answers in the world don't change the fact that it exists.
Right on, Tamon! Same-sex marriage harming procreation is a fallacy (in
layman's terms, straight people will still be straight --and will have
children-- no matter what gays do, DUH):
"I am not satisfied that denying same-sex couples the right to marry
because of their inability to procreate "as between themselves" is a
sufficiently pressing and substantial objective... it is not clear on what basis the
trial judge assumed that permitting same-sex couples to marry would
diminish the procreative potential for marriage. It is also unclear why he
downplayed the very real fact that same-sex couples can "have" and
raise children, given technological developments and changes in the law
permitting adoption... I agree with the comments of Mr. Justice Iacobucci
at para. 211 of Egan, supra, where he said he failed to see "how
according same-sex couples the benefits flowing to opposite-sex couples in
any way inhibits, dissuades or impedes the formation of heterosexual
unions." - Madame Justice Pworse, Canada
I also find it exceedingly arrogant for Houstons to imply that those of
us in long term relationships do not love each other and cannot keep
our pants up around other men. One need only look at the weddings/unions
section in a newspaper (in those papers that allow same-sex
announcements) to find that some gay men have been happily together for longer
than he has been on this planet!
I cannot believe that someone actually thinks that marriage is for procreation only. If that is the case, then infertile couples should be forced to divorce. What about couples who choose to not have children? Should senior citizens not be allowed to marry because they are too old to have children?
You need to expand your view on an issue to see all points before you make a decision.
Here are the facts:
Marriage offers 1,049 Federal benefits and responsibilities, not including hundreds more offered by every state.
In times of crisis, spouses have hospital visitation rights and can make medical decisions in event of illness or disability of their spouse.
Employers offer spouses sick leave, bereavement leave, access to health insurance and pension
The law provides certain automatic rights to a person?s spouse regardless of whether or not a will exists.
Married couples in elderly care facilities are generally not separated unless one spouse?s health dictates hospitalization or special care.
The dissolution of a marriage requires a determination of property distribution, award of child custody and support and spousal support. Absent divorce, there is no uniform system for sorting out the ending of a relationship.
Financial issues are complex and challenging, no matter the couple. And when home ownership, kids and other assets are a part of the equation, planning for the present and especially the future is even more critical for greater security.
Married couples are permitted to give an unlimited amount of gifts to each other without being taxed.
The law presumes that a married couple with both names on the title to their home owns the property as ?tenants by the entirety.?
A married couple, by statute, has creditor protection of their marital home.
Many married people are entitled to financial benefits relating to their spouses, such as disability, pension and social security benefits.
With marriage, a couple has the right to be treated as an economic unit and to file joint tax returns (and pay the marriage penalty), and obtain joint health, home and auto insurance policies.
When a spouse dies, there is no need to prove ownership of every item in the household for taxable purposes.
A child who grows up with married parents benefits from the fact that his or her parents? relationship is recognized by law and receives legal protections.
Spouses are generally entitled to joint child custody and visitation upon divorce (and bear an obligation to pay child support).
The mark of a strong family and healthy children is having parents who are nurturing, caring, and loving. Parents should be judged on their ability to parent, not by their age, race, religion, gender, disability, sexual orientation or gender identity.
Studies show that people who are married tend to live longer and lead healthier lives.
For adults, a stable, happy marriage is the best protector against illness and premature death. Decades of research have clearly established these links. (Burman & Margolin, 1992; Dawson, 1991; Verbrugge, 1979).
Studies on marriages have found that married people live longer, have higher incomes and wealth, engage less in risky behaviors, eat more healthily, and have fewer psychological problems than unmarried people. (Waite, Linda J. ?Why Marriage Matters.? Strengthening Marriage Roundtable. Washington, DC, June 1997)
Research shows that unmarried couples have lower levels of happiness and well-being than married couples. (Popenoe, David and Dafoe Whitehead, Barbara, USA Today, July, 2000)
Well I did not say I was straight. I would not be talking about gay.com if I were. In fact, the fact that I am not I think gives me more credibility because I am describing the insight I have developed.
While it is true that many countries are adopting gay marriage, I think it is a bit premature to assume that the US will buckle under international pressure. I mean, there are a lot of values we have which are different, such as alcohol consumption, drug use, and prostitution, which differ widely from our counterparts in the developed world.
And with respect to the procreation argument, I am not saying we are in dire threat of depopulation per se, but that the states do and can make arguments to ban gay marriage to preserve the traditional family structure, which no doubt, plays some role in our social fabric?
I am not on a high horse, I am just telling it like it is.
Whether we want to get married or not, we should all have the right to marry another consenting adult, regardless of the sex of the partners. I can't believe there are straight people posting here on a mainly gay site about not wanting gays to marry. But the posts are obviously so bad, it's funny...the one from the 21 year old guy--hey bud, there are PLENTY of sites for married straight guys who want to hook up with women. Not to mention the sites for supposedly hetero married men who want to hook up with other men.
The state of heterosexual marriage has never been worse--more cheating and divorces than ever. There is no sanctity anymore, gay or straight, so get off the high horse.
Procreation??? Is the world in some kind of population crisis in which we desperately need as many new babies as we can all conceive? Either way, gay marraige is going to happen in the U.S., it is just a matter of time. With Spain telling the Catholic church to basically F-off on the matter and all of Canada signing on, we will continue to look like more of a laughing stock for being such prudes.
Im only 21, and its pretty obvious why gays should not be allowed to marry. I mean, are you positing that a gay relationship is equivalent to a hetero one? What distinguishes them is, perhaps most obviously, the lack of ability to procreate. And since the state has a vested interest as a guarantor of values, whatever they may be, whether or not we agree with them or not, it can choose to promote the traditional family which cannot exist between men.
Also, I do not beleieve that men develop the same kind of bonds between one another as heteros. One need only go online, and you see men, who are supposedly "partnered", or "married", but who are neverthless "looking". This kind of conduct is clearly distinct, in what hetero venue can you find a place where the fact that a man is married will not only be acceptable, but an attraction.
Quoting you: " NO, I do not (and never will) believe in Gays, let alone marriage."
Oh my God... I can't believe you said that... You must be straight and homophobic? Do you also believe that God made Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve??? I'm wondering why you are even looking at this site?
In keeping with the guidelines of this discussion group... I guess... I really can't say anything.... accept that it's very sad that in 2005, in the United States of America... there are still people who do not accept other people for who they are just because a person was born a little bit different they are. How are we going to progress as a world when there are still races that cannot tolerate other races, religions that cannot tolerate other religons, straights that cannot accept gays, cultures that cannot accept other cultures.... Those examples have caused war, hatred and bloodshed all over the world since the begining of recorded history...
Are you, Sir., willing to carry that mentality through this millennium as well? Instead of mindlessly believing everything the government, the media, your parents and the churches tell you... I DARE YOU to try looking at the world objectively and actually THINKING for yourself and forming your own opinions without the programming and influences of others. How about thinking as an individual instead of like a Borg. Try this... for your own self growth and for the good of the future of humanity.
Have a nice day.
NO, I do not (and never will) believe in Gays, let alone marriage. Forget about the legal stuff, do you folks not know that this is NOT RIGHT? In my lifetime I remember this being looked at as perverts. What's changed? We all think logically and know when something is just not natural. Then why is it that we do not apply that same thinking to this?
Stop this maddness now.
Gay marriage is a wonderful idea, in theory, but not practical in this generation or in this society. There are way too many obstacles to full marriage benefits for gays right now. Although we have come a very long way since stonewall, there is still a lot more intolerance toward gays than we would like to believe. And now with the bible thumping Bush administration and the right wing Christian Church behind him, now is not the time to shove this topic in their faces. No telling what they might do. I don't trust them any further than I can shoot my wad (pardon my language) So I think it's best to keep it a low profile for the next four years and not make waves.
For now, I think we should concentrate on strengthening the Domestic Partners bill which Bush said, in his reelection campaign, that he would support.
We just need to ensure that the bill provides all of the necessary legal protections and rights that we want in our relationships with our significant others.
But as cultrclb and luckyby have pointed out... Most guys are not really into monogamous long term relationships. Some are but most are not. Unfortunately, the gay culture does not support monogamy and relationships at all. The entire structure is built entirely around sex and partying. That's it. Just walk into any gay club in WeHo and look around. Gay marriage is not going to make more guys stay together but it will most likely make divorce attorneys very rich. Those of us who are already in a committed relationship (or want to get into one) will stay together because we want to, weather there is a piece of paper making it "official" or not.
And for those boys (and girls) who want to, and are willing to put the effort and time into monogamy and long term loving partnerships with each other, I believe that they should have the same basic legal protections as the straights do.. and a well crafted Domestic Partnership bill will provide that. Anyhow, that's my 4 cents. -Tommy
Im going to have to agree with luckyby. Although some situations are exempt, the majority of gay men in relationships seem to have an "open" understanding. I sincerely wish I could support the idea of gay marriage, but with what ive seen in most instances, its just not practical. Granted the fact that some heterosexual marriages are flawed with cheating and promiscuity, gay relationships seem to be almost never monogomous. As luckyby stated, bathhouses, websites, any gay advertisement, is riddled with sex, and debauchery. Just my opinion. Not meant to be offensive to anyone or any particular situation. Just giving my thoughts on what ive seen out and about.